December 2016_by Valentina Rossi
ALL FOR ALL! curated by Kinkaleri, Piersandra di Matteo and Giacomo Covacich (bruno) took place last September at the beautiful Teatro Metastasio in Prato, I went to visit the Kinkaleri to the partydedicated to the found raisin campaign for the project ALL!
All! It's a project about language and how it is organized; for over four years Kinkaleri worked through verbal and physical paths, visual and sound. Starting point, and critical point, of the research was the figure of William S. Burroughs. The project investigated many topics and critical issues related not only to our contemporaneity, but also to discipline put into place, so the Word has become a dance!
Which means “is it my world”?
Marco Mazzoni: it deals with a relationship with the others, a kind of leitmotiv that triggers a reflection on the vision of art-works, a question/title that gathers all the events we present at spazioK, we liked the idea to use a question as title to introduce our proposals.
Massimo Conti: It's a question we ask, and we ask ourselves about the making of art in its possible exploratory dynamics. It's also the relationship we have with this city in order to test it on occasions, presenting art-works that put the body and its presence at the center of research.
The project “All” is completed and is taking the shape of the catalogue. How do you define this experience?
MM: All was a great adventure, for nearly four years we've been exploring the linguistic power of the dynamic form using the invention of a gestural code that literally translates the alphabet and words into movement; the subjectivity of the performer, quite as a calligraphic relationship, has become the subject of the project itself, as saying that the essence of things is to be found only in the quality of their exposition. Inventing an upstream code, we freed from the obsession of always having to create some new forms; by working directly on the essence of a text, which, in its reproduction through the K-code creates a choreography, we realized more than twenty performances, every time attempting to redefine the concept of dance / language.
MC: In my opinion, it was important because we built a real artistic experience. Implementing collaborations and inventions, we defined a path, free and complex, we afforded the luxury of carrying out a project outside the box, to follow traces of a work on language and on the freedom to be art-works. We became part of the wave of that art always in search of desire and freedom and needs.
In your work it is more important the “body” or the “language”?
MM: No language without the body, language is a concept, the body is its evidence, but I could also argue otherwise.
MC: Body is the language.
Could you briefly describe one of your latest works?
MM: Recently we've been exploring two new artistic paths, No Title Yet and Stealing, almost a reflection of one another; the first focuses on the beat/rhythm used as a strategy for the audience involvement, a sort of somersault where the observer is involved in the same way as the performer, the first step was realized in collaboration with the photographer Jacopo Benassi intent on immortalizing the contours of what was going on during the event, then returning live images on a screen in a sophisticated game of mirrors. The second one instead has to do with the game of forces that a body put in place in the reproduction of a form; in a dilated time some paintings by Caravaggio are used as a score, the performer has only one intention: to cross boundaries. we performed it only once in a gallery directly related to a work by Paolo Parisi, discovering lots of interesting connections.
MC: In this moment we have no specific projects, basically we just concluded All and we are in a very open land, facing all the exciting inputs passing by, in this place we're trying to investigate every possible ideas and every occasion (f.e. the last two Marco spoke about) becomes a possibility for future projects.
At what work you are more connected?
MM: The next one
Which were the main sources of your work? some reference artists?
MM: To consider sources for our work these are the three contemporary artists that I like most: Andy Warhol, Félix Gonzalez-Torres, Wolfgang Tillmans.
MC: I swallow everything I see as a linguistic experience, my references are not people but rather all the concepts every experience gives from a formal and conceptual point of view. For this reason, artists or philosophers are on the same level. Every sign of language is suitable for the communication of unknown worlds above all. If you want some names, I could mention Jimmie Durham, Antonin Artaud, Joseph Beuys, Gilles Deleuze, Tino Sehgal.
There is a meeting that has changed your life?
MM: Many meetings (people) helped me to define what I am, but if I have to name few the first one is Antonietta Daviso, one of my first ballet teacher, I was 20 years old when I went to her classes in via Sant' Egidio in Florence. It was she, with curiosity and determination, who encouraged and pushed me to pursue my ambitions, although it was not the easiest choice at that moment for me. This made me move to New York to follow the professional training program with Merce Cunningham. Cunningham's approach to the “chance” through mathematical pattern is one of the major influences for me. An experience that changed completely my approach to things, there I realized that dancing was not just movement. Then, of course, meet the rest of the Kinkaleri helped me to make a further shift, but my basic approach was done.
MC: I don't know, I cannot answer so clear. There were meetings that have caused changes but also changes that have triggered meetings. When I speak at meetings, I talk about people, events, shows or concerts that have changed or expanded my possibilities of perception.
How important is it for you the artistic legacy?
MM: I have a tendency to accumulate but I would say that this is essential, even if sometimes things just happen, even when you don't know exactly where an idea comes from. We continuously get information and sometimes, even without organization, they produce the result of what youperceived and enjoyed without premeditation... but maybe I didn't understand the question :)
MM: When you say artistic heritage, do you refer to the culture we grew up? I don't know, I think it's hard to have no "biological" influences.
There are some artists you’d like to work with?
MM: An artist I would love to work with is Yoko Ono, she's still so productive and it will be amazing to make a physical/sound-dialogue/duet translating O'Sanity, one of her lyric from the eighties, using the K-code which I always found really connected to her work. A very simple thing, voice and movement, and then shoot a video of it, for posterity.
MC: I would like to work with Lars von Trier.
Do you feel closer to the world of theater, dance or the visual arts?
MM: In order, I would say to visual arts, dance and very little to theatre
MC: I am very close to thought and words that then produce items and categories. I feel close to everything that excites me.
Where do you prefer to work? Open spaces and enclosed spaces? Galleries, museums or theater?
MM: We project and realize performances for many types of spaces, sometimes the space is an input for the performance. Some places allow better than others to focus on details; in galleries or museums the viewer's perception often changes, sometimes it only takes the slightest thing unlike in theatres where dramaturgy seems to be the only yardstick for the success of a show. However, we have always enjoyed subverting the rules, inventing new ones, sometimes winning and sometimes failing miserably, but having fun, always.
MC: I endorse what Marco said with a desire that is to work, one day, in huge situations such as opera houses or large institutional museums or centres where great importance has the impersonal element and where the trend influences thought, that is, where each action is mediated and digested by a higher organism, often disinterested to the idea, but clinging to rules. A sort of perversion.
Where do you make your works?
MM: Mostly at spazioK, our place in Prato.
MC: Yes, at spazioK.
A project, related to Art, that you’d like to do?
MM: I'd like to make more than one thousand people screaming all together in one huge roar, oops, I think we've already done it! [Stadium, San Siro, Milan, 2005] :)
MC: A similar thing, but using a book like the Bible or Joyce's Ulysses, entrusting all the text to be read simultaneously to as many people as the words of the book. Like reading a book in one second. Already done?
If you were not an artist, what job would you like?
MM: An housewife, with no children and the housekeeper 24 hours a day, that's what I would like!
MC: A pilot of airplanes, small ones though, those from which you can see everything when overflight forests or deserts.